You are about to meet Ashley, a proponent of abortion. Sadly, Ashley provides a vivid example of the dark heart of those who support women murdering their unborn children.
On September 19, 2015, while ministering outside the Family Planning Associates abortuary in Mission Hills (CA), I had an encounter with a particularly vile and murderous young woman. I posted a video of the encounter, which I titled The Heart of a Pro-Choice Woman. Here’s the video.
With about 4,000 views, I’ve deleted more comments than I’ve posted to the video’s page. Yesterday, a woman named Ashley commented on the video. Ashley describes herself this way, on her YouTube channel:
“As a female youtuber, it’s almost like you have to put on makeup. Well not me! I am No Makeup Ashley, and I do everything, from comedic skits, to DIYS, to vlogs, and more. (Except makeup look book videos.) Because I think the best way to connect with you guys is to show you the real me, which includes my multiple personalities and my bare skin.”
I decided to engage Ashley in conversation and challenge her assertions.
My hope is that my brothers and sisters in Christ who read this exchange will find it both instructive and edifying–instructive and a useful resource in their own apologetic and evangelistic efforts; edifying as they see the light of truth expose the darkness of sinfulness.
I also hope Christians will share this article with their unsaved friends and family members who pride themselves in being proponents of the murder of unborn children.
Here is my conversation with Ashley.
ASHLEY: Will God help the mother when she is suffering to provide food for the “cell” society is pressuring her to keep to have a baby. No!! This is why most homeless people in shelters are women with children.
ME: So, let’s follow your logic, Ashley. It’s okay to murder unborn children because they and their mothers might end up homeless. So, your answer to the societal problem of homelessness is to murder children before they become homeless. It won’t be long, Ashley, before you are advocating for the murder of homeless people, too.
God can forgive your murderous heart, Ashley, but you must come to God on His terms. God does not negotiate with sinners. I hope you will read this, Ashley: http://www.crossencountersmin.com/message
ASHLEY: I am fine thank you. And it is not murder if the thing is not living or breathing. As people, our purpose is to respect one another’s decisions about their life. You only have one life, and you shouldn’t ruin it because of society. A child can be an amazing thing when the time is right. But when it’s not, the mother and the child’s life could be miserable.
ME: Ashley you were not a “thing” in your mother’s womb. You were a baby. Again, let’s follow your logic. According to your worldview, a person has no value if they are not “breathing.” So, according to you, Ashley, if you’re consistent, anyone on a respirator should be killed. After all, they can’t breathe on their own.
You assert that if the “timing” of a child is not right a mother’s life could be miserable, and therefore it’s okay if she kills her unborn child. Once again, let’s follow your logic.
A loving mother carries her baby to term and delivers her. As the child grows, the mom notices that the baby doesn’t seem to be developing mentally or emotionally like other babies her age. She takes her beautiful baby to the doctor. The doctor runs tests and it is determined that the baby, though looking normal physically, is mentally retarded. The doctor tells the mother that her daughter will never mentally mature beyond a two-year-old.
The mother leaves the doctor’s office devastated. Through her tears, she repeatedly glances in the rear view mirror at her precious daughter in a car seat. She thinks to herself, “This is not the right time for me to have a child with special needs. As she gets older, she will require more care and attention, not less. I’m a single mom. I can’t afford the expense of childcare professionals who are trained to deal with my baby’s needs. Even if the government steps in to help, the time it’s going to take….. I might have to quit my job and go on welfare! I promised myself I would never do that!”
The single mom arrives home. She gently and lovingly picks up her baby from the back seat. She caresses her daughter’s cheek and tells her how much she loves her.
The mother makes her way into her house and walks straight to the bathroom. She fills the tub with warm water. She softly says to her daughter, “I’m sorry.” Over and over again, with tears rolling down her face, she says, “I’m sorry,” as she holds her baby’s body under the water. Soon, the baby stops moving. The baby’s eyes have a fixed, blank stare.
In this mother’s mind, it simply was not the right time to have a baby with special needs. So, she killed her child.
According to your logic, Ashley, and if you’re consistent, you would support this woman’s decision to murder her child.
This is how wicked and depraved you have become, Ashley. No, you are not “fine.” You are dead in your sin. Only faith in Jesus Christ can save you. http://www.crossencountersmin.com/message
ASHLEY: I want to answer your question with a true story. A 13 year old got raped in Texas. She is 13!!. She cannot be a mother in that age, she has a whole life a head of her. Do you think she should still give birth to the baby? No! Women who are under the age of 17 have a really high risk of death during birth. She was forced to do the dead, and lost control of her body.
Now that girl is pregnant. She can’t be a mother at that age. She wants to get an abortion. Apparently, because these restrictions she can’t get it, and she lost control of her body again. And when I mentioned that most poor people are women with children, I never mentioned that the father was helping them. Last time I checked it takes two to make a baby. If the father doesn’t want it, then he is putting the lady in a difficult situation, and doing something worse than aborting the baby. This is not a question for if its right or wrong. It’s a question of should abortion be legal. At the very least, an abortion should be legal for a few events, like the 13 year old girl. You can be pro-life. But it’s wrong to pressure women to be it too. Everyone has different circumstances. And we need to respect that everybody has control of their life and body.
ME: Ashley, I want you to know that I am both glad and thankful you are staying in the conversation. I and others are praying for you.
Before I continue, I want to assure you that I care about you as a human being. I am not at all angry with you. I harbor no ill-will or bitterness toward you. As a Christian, I am commanded by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to love God and to love people–to love my neighbor as myself. Ashley, you are my neighbor. I’ve stayed in this conversation with you because I care about you as a person, and I care about where you will spend eternity.
Ashley. I can’t help but wonder if you are the girl in your story. If you are not, then I cannot help but wonder if you have had an abortion. If you have aborted one or more of your children, it is important you understand that you will always be the mother of the children you’ve killed. The only difference between you and the mother whose child died in a car accident, or of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, or of leukemia is this: your children died at your hands.
That being said, Ashley, I also want to assure you that you CAN be forgiven for such horrific crimes against humanity–against your own flesh and blood. And that forgiveness is ONLY found in Jesus Christ.
Whether or not it is you in the story you presented, too many young women (girls) have found themselves in the position you describe. One is TOO many! I believe the crime of rape should carry the death penalty.
Since you answered my last response with a question, I will begin by answering the hypothetical situation you posed, which for some women is not a hypothetical situation, with a question.
Why would you kill the child for the crime of the father? Why would you sentence the baby to death? Why would you execute an innocent person for a crime someone else committed?
If a mother, while walking through a park with her two-month-old son in a stroller, was suddenly and viciously raped and murdered, would you advocate for the killing of her two-month-old baby? After all, the deceased woman’s friends and family will be reminded of the rape and murder of their loved one every time they see the child because the child was there. If the woman had not been strolling through the park with her baby, she might still be alive today.
Or what about this? What if a woman, having been raped and impregnated by her rapist, decides to keep her baby. (Many women have done this.) After the baby is born, the mother immediately falls in love with her child. While she is still haunted by the horrific way she was violated, the mother’s love for her child overshadows her hurt and pain. But one day, when the baby is about three-months-old, the mother begins to feel uneasy when she looks into the eyes of her child. It really disturbs her, but she can’t put her finger on why she is feeling this way. Then one day it hits her like a ton of bricks. The reason she feels uneasy, the reason she feels an ache in the pit of her stomach when she looks at her baby, is that she sees physical features in her baby’s face of the man who raped her.
Over a very short period of time, the mother gets to the point where she can no longer look at her child without reliving the rape. She doesn’t think it is fair that she should feel victimized over and over again whenever she looks at her baby. The mother has her whole life ahead of her and she wants to be able to move passed the darkest moment of her life.
One afternoon, as her baby slept soundly in her crib, the mother drives a steak knife through her baby’s heart. After killing her child, she buries her baby in a shallow grave in the backyard.
According to your worldview, Ashley, if you are consistent, you must support the mother’s decision to murder her three-month-old baby.
Ashley, you wrote: “She [a 13-year-old] cannot be a mother in that age, she has a whole life a head of her.” I know of another young girl, probably no more than 13-years-old, who, while not the victim of rape, found herself in the position of being unexpectedly pregnant. And she was not yet married.
In her society, to be unmarried and pregnant at any age was considered not only immoral, but illegal. To make matters worse, the young girl was engaged to be married and her fiance was not the father of her child. According to the laws of her culture, she and her unborn baby could be put to death. If she was allowed to live (and that would only happen if no charges were filed against her), she would be shunned by her community, by her people, for the rest of her life. Her own family would likely never speak to her again. With her whole life ahead of her, all she had to look forward to was a life of hardship, loneliness, and misery.
This girl decided to do the most loving and courageous thing imaginable. Against all the conventions of men, against, society, and against her culture she kept her baby.
“In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary. And he came to her and said, ‘Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!’ But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.’
“And Mary said to the angel, ‘How will this be, since I am a virgin?’
“And the angel answered her, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God. And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For nothing will be impossible with God.’ And Mary said, ‘Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.’ And the angel departed from her” (Luke 1:26-38).
“Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly. But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, ‘Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.’ All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
‘Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall call his name Immanuel’
(which means, God with us). When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus” (Matthew 1:18-25).
Regardless of the age of the mother, regardless of the circumstances in which the mother finds herself, there is no justification for murdering her own baby. None.
Oh, I hope the Lord will bring you to your senses, Ashley. I hope He brings you to understand how you have sinned against Him in thought, word, and deed. I hope He brings you to an understanding of the just and eternal consequences for your sins against your Creator. And I hope He brings you to repentance and faith in His Son Jesus Christ. I do hope to see you in heaven one-day. http://www.crossencountersmin.com/message
ASHLEY: I didn’t have an abortion nor am I the girl in the story. I believe that women should be equal to men. And part of that is that women should have control of their own bodies. Without that we are not seen equal.
ME: Sadly, Ashley your “ra-ra” for equality rings hollow and hypocritical. You don’t want equality for everyone. Presently, you would give no such equality to unborn children. For convenience sake, you support their murder. And the baby in a woman’s womb is NOT the woman’s body. The baby has his/her own blood type and DNA. The baby is inside a woman’s body, but a baby is not part of a woman’s body.
ASHLEY: I am an educated woman, who researches both sides of the story. I can give you a million reasons as to why I am pro-choice, but I can only think of one reason why some people are pro-life. Because they believe an abortion of a fertilized egg is the same thing as murder. I erge [sic] you to understand why some people are pro-choice, and do some research.
ME: Ashley I have no doubt you can give a “million reasons” as to why you are pro-abortion. After all, “The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice” (Proverbs 12:15). And, “For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things” (Romans 1:21-23).
The wrath of God abides on you, Ashley (John 3:36). God may have already given you over to a debased mind, Ashley.
“And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them” (Romans 1:28-32).
I will take the last word in this conversation, Ashley (channel owner’s privilege), and leave you with these words:
“There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers” (Proverbs 6:16-19).
“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death” (Revelation 21:8).
“When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood” (Isaiah 1:15).
“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter” (Isaiah 5:20)!
“Yet you are he who took me from the womb; you made me trust you at my mother’s breasts. On you was I cast from my birth, and from my mother’s womb you have been my God” (Psalm 22:9-10).
“Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward” (Psalm 127:3).
“For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them” (Psalm 139:13-16).
“Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord, and turn away from evil” (Proverbs 3:7).
“Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it” (Proverbs 3:27).
“There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death” (Proverbs 14:12).
“The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good” (Proverbs 15:3).
“The violence of the wicked will sweep them away, because they refuse to do what is just” (Proverbs 21:7).
“Blessed is the one who fears the Lord always, but whoever hardens his heart will fall into calamity” (Proverbs 28:14).
“Doing wrong is like a joke to a fool, but wisdom is pleasure to a man of understanding” (Proverbs 10:23).
“For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, ‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay.’ And again, ‘The Lord will judge his people.’ It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God'” (Hebrews 10:26-31).
“Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:11-15).
Again, I and others are praying for you, Ashley. I pray the Lord saves your soul before He calls you to stand before Him to give an account for your life. In your present spiritual condition, He will find you guilty of sinning against Him and He will punish you in hell for all eternity.
I don’t want that for you, Ashley. As much as you hate the most helpless human being among us, I do not hate you. I pity you. My heart breaks for you because you love yourself and you love your sin, and the love of God is not in you.
The good news, Ashley, is that God has not struck you dead today for the sins you have committed against him today. But you are not promised tomorrow, Ashley. Now is the acceptable time. Today is the day of salvation. Repent and believe the gospel, Ashley, while God has given you time. http://www.crossencountersmin.com/message
Our conversation on this thread is thus concluded. If you would like to speak to me further, you can reach me at: firstname.lastname@example.org
Please join me in praying for Ashley–a woman with a very dark heart. Pray the Lord brings her to repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.